Wendy Sherman, a former ambassador who has served under three presidential administrations, analyzes President Trump’s approach to foreign policy this year.
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Throughout the year, the Trump administration has argued that it was bringing a dealmaker’s mindset to foreign policy, that everything is a transaction. So does that approach to foreign policy work? We’re going to discuss this with someone who has a long career of negotiating for the U.S. Ambassador Wendy Sherman is the former U.S. deputy secretary of state and has served three presidents throughout her career. Thank you for joining us.
WENDY SHERMAN: I’m delighted to be with you all.
FADEL: So, Ambassador, this president’s approach to foreign policy, as we said, has been repeatedly called transactional – to fulfill his America First agenda. As you look at this past year, is what you saw illustrative of a transactional foreign policy? And is that the right approach?
SHERMAN: I think it is probably a good description of what we have seen. Transactional is not always a bad thing.
FADEL: Yeah.
SHERMAN: Of course, in any negotiation, you’re trying to understand everybody’s interests and what they need, what you can give and what you can get. But what is different in this administration is a very go-it-alone, bilateral approach – not one that uses all of the elements of American power, all of the alliances and points of leverage that we have, but rather approaching this as if one’s trying to build a building and get an agreement from the zoning authority. And that doesn’t work so well in diplomacy.
FADEL: You know, we’ve watched this president sometimes treat allies like enemies, publicly threatening, publicly bullying if he doesn’t get what he wants. But he’s gotten some things done – a Gaza deal that hasn’t exactly brought peace, but has ended the worst of the violence. He touts a slew of other peace deals between feuding countries – Armenia and Azerbaijan, Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo. Is this approach of transactional deal-making working?
SHERMAN: Well, I think the issue is whether any deal is sustainable. We’ve already seen the Rwanda and Democratic Republic of Congo break down. Yes, I’m very glad that there is, in essence, a ceasefire in terms of Gaza. But we are seeing the building of more settlements in the West Bank. We’re seeing…
FADEL: And people are still being killed pretty much every day in Gaza.
SHERMAN: Yes, indeed. So, yes, there have been some at least short-term successes, and we all want peace. But is it sustainable? And if we get in trouble, will we have burnt all of our relationships with our allies so that they won’t come to our defense?
FADEL: Ambassador, I mean, you’ve negotiated some of the most consequential U.S. deals, including the Iran nuclear deal under President Obama, which the Trump administration actually described as being transactional and then, during his first administration, pulled out of it. But I’m wondering, as somebody who has been involved in these delicate negotiations with foes, what is the line between maximizing leverage and eroding trust?
SHERMAN: Well, look. The Iran nuclear deal was not about, actually, a negotiation among equals in the sense that we and our European colleagues and Russia and China were all working to make sure that Iran never got a nuclear weapon. So it really had to take into account what everyone was trying to get done and ensure that Iran would never get a nuclear weapon. Well, so this is why it is a complex process.
And so far, we’ve seen – let’s take the Ukraine example. Ukraine was illegally and horrifically invaded by Russia, and the president sent a friend and a dealmaker to meet with the Russians and to meet with the Ukrainians. But in fact, we know from a recent Wall Street Journal article that Putin, who is a well-versed KGB prior agent, really focused on Witkoff because he thought that he could manage him and manipulate him. And it appears that has been the case. Witkoff and Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, are saying that they’ve had constructive meetings with Russia. But Russia is singing a different tune, and our intelligence community is affirming that, in fact, Putin still wants all of Ukraine. So we’re not at that deal that the president said he could get…
FADEL: Yeah.
SHERMAN: …Done in Day 1 because he needs a team to do it and not just a couple of guys who think they know best.
FADEL: So if you were advising the president on this issue, what would you say to him?
SHERMAN: I would say to Witkoff and Kushner, take that intelligence briefing so you really know what you’re up against. Use the team that’s been put together for you to support you. Listen to them. Talk to your partners. I’m glad to hear that the president spoke with the prime minister of the U.K. recently, that he’s been on the phone with the president of France, because, in fact, we all are going to have to deal with the consequences and are dealing with the consequences of what is happening or won’t happen here. And for the administration to always remember this is not about a negotiation among equals. Yes, Putin has a lot of power. But this is about someone who illegally invaded a sovereign country.
FADEL: Ambassador Wendy Sherman is the former U.S. deputy secretary of state. Thank you so much for your time.
SHERMAN: Thank you.
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