Secretary of State Marco Rubio seeks to reassure European allies and a partial government shutdown hits the Department of Homeland Security.
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
NPR’s senior contributor Ron Elving joins us. Ron, thanks for being with us, as always.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: Secretary Rubio gave a major speech at the Munich Security Conference. What do you make of it?
ELVING: The expectation had been that Rubio would bring a somewhat more diplomatic version of that speech by JD Vance, this conference a year ago, expressing President Trump’s longtime complaint that Europeans don’t bear their share of the cost of their own defense. And Rubio was much more nuanced. He said the U.S. was strong enough to go alone but that we would prefer to renew the alliance. And as we just heard from Michele Kelemen, Rubio’s statement that the U.S. would always consider itself a child of Europe, that was certainly well received.
SIMON: Another Saturday, another shutdown – this one partial. Funding has lapsed for the Department of Homeland Security after lawmakers failed to reach an agreement, Democrats say they won’t help approve more funding until new restrictions are placed on federal immigration operations. How do you read the significance of this latest funding lapse?
ELVING: It shows the two parties are as far apart as ever on ICE and immigration enforcement. Democrats were almost entirely united on this, even though many of them oppose using shutdowns as a tactic. They could not face their voters if they let Homeland Security continue without serious reforms, even though there’s plenty of money on hand for ICE to continue operations, even as other parts of the Department of Homeland Security have to shut down or cut back. That’s because ICE got a huge war chest from the last big funding bill – the one Trump called the One Big Beautiful Bill. This may be one reason he liked it so much.
So Democrats know this won’t keep ICE from operating, but they hope it will call attention to the relationship between ICE and DHS and put more heat on the administration of the overall agency. That includes the transportation safety folks, unfortunately, at the airports. There may be flight delays or cancellations, so there will be consequences for real people. And it once again demonstrates just how far the two parties are from finding the compromises by which this government is meant to function.
SIMON: And this week, Attorney General Pam Bondi testified during a House committee hearing where she defended the Justice Department’s handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files. It got heated. Congressman Ted Lieu, Democrat from California, asked the attorney general whether there were any underage girls at parties that Donald Trump attended with Jeffrey Epstein. And here’s how she responded.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PAM BONDI: This is so ridiculous, and that they are trying to deflect from all the great things Donald Trump has done. There is no evidence that Donald Trump has committed a crime. Everyone knows that. This has been the most transparent presidency. He’s the one that asked that those files…
TED LIEU: I’m reclaiming my time.
BONDI: …Be released.
LIEU: I got your answer. You said there’s no evidence.
BONDI: President Trump asked that these…
LIEU: Mr. Chairman, please stop the clock. Please stop the clock.
BONDI: He signed the legislation.
SIMON: It went like that. Ron, what do you make of the hearing?
ELVING: Oh, it got worse. Bondi and her staff brought armloads of binders with zingers to fire back at members who questioned her on the Epstein files or who asked why Bondi’s department was not complying with the bipartisan legislation passed by Congress ordering them to release all the files and use redactions only to protect victims. Instead, we’ve seen a lot of slow walking and outright stonewalling, with some files released that do expose victims and some files released that redact the identity of Epstein’s guests and clients. That seems to turn the law on its head.
You have to assume that Pam Bondi had an audience of one for this appearance – President Trump. And he may well have been pleased by her performance. But Epstein is an issue that will not go away. It cuts across a lot of the usual lines, hurts the president with his own constituencies. His numbers are eroding now not only among independents, but even among Republicans, as some have genuine distress about ICE and the whole Epstein affair.
SIMON: And we’re seeing more Republicans willing to depart from the president, aren’t we?
ELVING: Yes, that’s right. And it’s been significant, as you would expect. A lot of it has to do with the midterm elections later this year. Six House Republicans defied their party leaders to vote for a bill blocking tariffs Trump wants to impose on Canada. So with those crossovers, the Democrats were able to pass the measure in the House. It’s a clear challenge to House Speaker Mike Johnson. He has the slimmest of majorities in the House and yet the absolute necessity of constant loyalty to Trump.
SIMON: NPR’s Ron Elving. Thanks so much.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott.
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